In the privacy community there are services, programs for private maps use. Some even suggest using the phone without a SIM card (which is quite possible, but you can get into trouble). But I don’t use them, as my geolocation is already tracked by an advanced camera system in my city, by my cell provider via triangulation. What are your thoughts on this? Do you use OpenStreetMap for private navigation?
what do you mean by you can get into trouble for using a phone without a SIM card? A WiFi only phone is just a smaller tablet.
And yeah, cities with extensive camera vigilance can be a problem impossible to solve. There’s not much you can do about that other than protest.
Your cell provider might track you via triangulation, but this is solved by either plane mode, turning your phone off or a Faraday bag. Of course those would render your phone useless (except plane mode and WiFi activated).
it’s a problem quite difficult to solve right now. if you want a working phone, at least your cell provider will track you. But by using open street maps you don’t give your data to Google too, so you minimize who has it.
get into troubles? f.e. someone from my relatives can call me not in Signal but through regular cellular network, just forgot about this nuance, maybe he/she will need to say something important. also, no mobile internet situation is weird. i use my local maps provider yandex so data is going to one place from all sources, to government, so it does not really matter.
oh okay, I thought you meant legal trouble. Of course that you won’t be receiving calls without a SIM card.
There’s a way of receiving calls without a SIM card, and that’s using VOIP numbers, like Twillio. But you’d need to be connected to WiFi of course. So there’s not real solution to this problem other than letting your cell provider track you.
I suggest using Tor or a VPN (with jurisdiction outside of your local government claws) at all times so even if they get your location, they don’t know what are you doing with your phone.
Also, Yandex might sell the information to other third parties that your government might not sell to, so I would still use open street maps unless the difference in comfort of using Yandex is a big deal for you.
always-enabled switzerland self-hosted VPN user here 😃👋
our government is awful in terms of data handling so my geolocation is already sold on darknet for small amount of money, does not really matter. yandex is more convenient because of connection with bus, train schedule, f.e, so i use it and contribute to OSM :)
Nobody pays money to buy your location. Why should anyone do that? At the same time while you are that on the fence, you use Yandex? That does not make any sense.
because my geolocation is sold anyway, if i use yandex or not. but day-to-day life becomes worse without it.
Personally not worried, but as a society I am.
I live in the US, and we’ve seen a rise in some particularly hostile legislation against certain groups of people like in the LGBTQ community. I can foresee precise tracking being used against these groups of people to determine if they’ve been in the vicinity of a medical provider’s office, have traveled across state lines, congregate in certain social establishments, and even perhaps where they vote for representatives.
This information could be used as targeting information for harassment or further punitive legislation. Voting districts could be redrawn to split these populations into minority regions such that they don’t have proportional share of representatives. Liquor licenses for “gay bars” could be revoked. Maybe we extend the liquor license revocations to bars which simply tolerate LQBTQ people getting a beer after work.
Maybe tomorrow we change the targeted groups to Muslims. Or maybe NRA members. With the foundations for this kind of surveillance in place, the opportunity for abuse will never go away.
You could have also referenced the abortion issue, where it’s been proven without a shadow of a doubt that police are using surveillance powers to monitor women who are suspected of being pregnant and trying to terminate the pregnancy. It’s literally already happening in one instance, which helps prove that you’re very right in being worried about the things you’re worried about. Because those things will surely come to pass as well.
I disagree with you just slightly. I don’t think that focus should be on gay or whatever group the news is taking about. We are all unique and we all diserve privacy and freedom.
As Edward Snowden once said:
deleted by creator
what they’ve described is going to be day-to-day life thing if people won’t oppose it out of convenience.
But the comment you’re replying to is talking about day-to-day life. Not for most of us, but unfortunately some minorities are being targeted in some places, and the trend seems to be getting worse, not better, in the whole world.
Location is turned off on my phone.
I’m well aware that “the authorities” can still location track my phone. Not much I can do about that, frankly. And I’m not sure they care much about me. But Scamazon and Screwgle and CrApple and whoever cannot. Which is the point.
Most of the time I figure out my directions before I leave the house. I do use a map app without location services. So it’s pretty much a virtual paper map, which is still useful.
I do also have paper maps, but rarely use them.
So does your carrier. And they sell to third parties.
Everyone is so worried about Apple and Google but carriers have been raping you for data and selling it for ages.
The article here recently about Mozilla testing cars was off the chain.
So that means we should give up? That’s like saying your leaving your front door open because something was stolen off your porch
they do not care, let’s be real. i also use maps as virtual paper, without GPS enabled. Google does not know where i am because of LineageOS + microG thing.
But I don’t use them, as my geolocation is already tracked by an advanced camera system in my city, by my cell provider via triangulation.
how is your geolocation tracked by cameras? It doesn’t make sense.
advanced camera system? where do you live? Singapore?
Moscow. one of the pioneer cities in surveillance-camera department.
how? facial recognition?
ps: fuck putin
yup, facial recognition, one of the most advanced system, near China quality ;D
If I don’t want to be located, I know how not to be.
But if I’m in my home, expected to be in my home, belong in my home and I’m doing home stuff, I’m not entirely that caring about who knows I am. I also don’t think it’s that big a deal if the government knows I’m in a bookstore, or work.
But yeah, if I was hiding a body, I’d probably take my shitbox Acura that’s disconnected from everything but the ground, and I’d leave my phone at home, tied to my cat with string so it looks like I’m cleaning.
good strategy, for day-to-day life it does not matter so much where are you located.
Someone already broke to my house, so who need locks. /j
bad analogy. it’s an ongoing process, not a one-time breach ;)
I leave my phone in airplane mode all the time. I only turn on the cellular radio when I need data. But not when I’m just roaming around.
When the radio is on I’m tracked, and I know it, and when the radio is off I’m not.
Just because your camera network exists, doesn’t mean you have to make it easy for them.
it already is. our camera system recognizes, identifies people easily.
No reason to give up and make it even easier for them.
Leave the city.
Excellent advice. Thank you, master 😃
Obviously it’s not something you can get up and do but it’s something I’d plan out.
There are much more serious disadvantages in the provinces that affect not only tracking but also quality of life :)
Yes, I do. It is entirely unacceptable in my opinion, and when given the chance, I will use tech that does not support this system, even if in the end my location or something else is exposed by something out of my control.
As I see the solution is definitely not to give up.Also, what do you mean by getting into trouble for not using a SIM card in your phone? They won’t arrest or fine you.
They’re cutting phones off or not activating without them now in the USA, including e-SIM. And making noise about going cashless which is annoying since most convenience stores charge service fees to use a card, regardless of what you spend.
principles are a good thing ❤️ tried to use Organic Maps/OSM in the past but it was not good enough for me. when i was talking about troubles it is more about missing important info about other people/inconveniences than some legal stuff 🙂
Why did you feel that Organic Maps was not good enough for you?
Is your area not properly mapped on OpenStreetMap or was the app not good enough for you?
Area is pretty outdated in OSM. No bus/train schedule, car accident alerts on place, places reviews from users.
Area is pretty outdated in OSM
Well, we can all actively contribute to OSM to improve the maps. I personally enjoy doing it and knowing that the map data doesn’t belong to a private company like Google.
No bus/train schedule
I am used to check those on an external app from the service provider. I understand how that is an issue for you, but in my case I don’t miss it.
(no) car accident alerts on place
this could be useful, indeed, but it is hard to implement while keeping user’s privacy. It can also be unreliable if users don’t report them properly.
(no) places reviews from users.
I personally prefer it like this: it means less clutter on my maps, and unfortunately online reviews have become quite useless in the last years: businesses push to remove negative review and buy fake positive reviews. I no longer trust them.
i already contributed to OSM in the past. my hometown became much more detailed because of this. also, on Yandex there is more info about places (prices, types of food f.e., some specific stuff, which is added by place hoster in time, no latency)
in our city all needed information about bus schedule provided ± exclusively through yandex so it is really needed
but it is still really useful feature :)
yandex local reviews are still fair, no company deleting comments bullshit so they are useful
I am up to a certain point.
Just because you can’t stop all the leaks in your plumbing doesn’t mean you shouldn’t fix the ones you can.
If these holes lead to the same place and the same data leaks through them, then I wouldn’t worry about there being more than one :)
I personal use graphhopper and it’s great but I’m sure my location is still tracked, maybe just not by Google now. You do what you can but there is no way to not have yourself tracked some way or another.
