I’ve been trying to figure out exactly what the point of this is. I haven’t asked Alex (haven’t talked directly to him in a long time as I have mostly abandoned fedi) but I know he’s the first prominent fedi dev to sort of pivot to nostr (a good sign; too many prominent fedi people are more interested in preserving their fiefdoms than the ultimate goal of all this) and has been building some interoperability stuff.

What I see at first glance is an attempt to slap fedi social model onto nostr? Trying to create a client that gives users a TWKN and local feed of some kind? I don’t know, perhaps someone can clear it up for me.

Anyway, I don’t really see the point, a primary benefit of nostr is the lack of network fragmentation and siloing. There’s some fragmentation that does occur with failures to fetch notes from relays and things, but not the network splitting and banlist passing and siloed networks like you get on fedi. Trying to shoehorn that UX back into nostr kind of misses the point IMO. I like the idea of community creation as a sort of organizational thing for feed curation without direct follows, it helps discoverability, particularly along lines of shared interest, but I don’t really see how the “web ring” like follow structure doesn’t achieve that already without the downside of building silos. A global feed, I see no point of that at all.

I don’t know why you’re getting down voted. This is more than a shower thought, understanding this and exploring the ramifications of it will change your life. I’m serious.

Albedo, black body radiation, energy gradients, inverse square law. Learn about that stuff.

On the rock there’s a thin layer of slime that changes the albedo of the rock. It redshifts the light that emanates from it just a little bit. But that little red shift, that light that radiates in a slightly higher entropy state, that difference accounts for the entire biosphere, and all the attendant beauty that comes along with that. You love your mother with that energy.

It makes me wonder, are we really separate from the sun?

OK well then why does he have it?

Oh it’s a replica? Why do you have it in the first place?

Who cares if people think you’re a Nazi sympathizer. You know who you are. Anyone who thinks you are without knowing you is a dumbass.

It’s a historical collectors item, nothing more. Keep it. It’s probably really cool.

I use heliboard and futo for speech to text. I was using sayboard for stt, and it worked OK, but futo just seems so much better at it. So far in liking it, I didn’t know they released a keyboard as well, I won’t be giving it a try but I hope it works out, I’d prefer FOSS.

Yeah you’re right it’s refresh databases, my bad.

I have never, once, run into an issue due to rolling release. I have never once read the news before updating. I’ve never had an update on arch break my system, never.

“Bleeding edge” is beta or alpha releases, people running those are the guinea pigs. All packages in default arch repositories are release versions, intended for use by users.

It is always expected to update your system periodically, no matter what distro or even software you’re using.

None of these are actual problems

Yes, and I argue that this is true of new users as well.

normally just works

Yes, very user friendly

excellent wiki to get answers.

Yes. All users of systems, new, intermediate, advanced, and of any system, including windows and Mac, google stuff sometimes and look for information. This is probably one of the most important components for any software, the more easy it is to find information the better it will be. You can’t find anything up to date on Ubuntu anymore, you’re in a forum with a post from 2008 following outdated information.

expected to read the wiki

yes, when using software it is expected that at some point you’ll want to look at documentation, so documentation needs to be detailed, accurate and up to date.

This problem you’re talking about with packages A B and C and wrong versions and stuff, I’ve never run into it. I’m sure it can happen, but I’ve never seen it. I have run into it on Debian based systems, every time I’ve tried to run one for a few months I get broken dependencies and stuff due to mismatched versions. Basically every problem after your edit applies to all package managers, forcing yes on dialogs (the “y” in -Sy) is always dangerous, “apt purge” and “apt autoremove” to clean cache and remove unneeded dependencies, this stuff isn’t unique to pacman, and again, I’ve only ever seen it on Debian, it’s theoretically possible on arch but a guarantee on Debian that you’ll run into these problems.

But we are getting lost in the weeds. Give someone an endeavorOS installer and a Linux Mint installer, will there be a noticable difference in ease of use? No, there won’t, generally what determines user friendliness is the DE. The few things they could get stuck on are in the terminal, that applies regardless of the distro, and the big difference is the package manager, and like I’ve said, I’ve never had pacman break, I’ve had apt break something every time I’ve run it for a few months.

The wiki just likes to make the details available. Installation of nextcloud is as easy as pacman -S nextcloud

You’re comparing a simple install guide with the entire detailed documentation of a package. of course the package docs are going to have more details.

Ignoring details is not the same as being user friendly. Having a bunch of corpo marketing pictures of slightly above average people smiling on video chat in your installation docs does not make something user friendly. Is this really the metric we are going by, how little information is in the documentation?

Dude thank you, someone who actually tried what I’m recommending weighing in.

OK I’m gettimg frustrated now, because you’re making literally no points at all, and now you’re quoting yourself. A whole lot of words saying absolutely nothing.

You didn’t lay out “fault in my logic”, you just asked me what I mean by robust. Do you have anything to actually say or do you just like the sound of your own voice?

In what? What???

How is arch hard post installation?

OK, so Debian is not rolling release, arch is. If rolling release causes the system to implode, doesn’t that make arch more user friendly?

I’m the one that’s says the only thing unfriendly about arch is the installation. That’s a point I’m making. And truth be told, most of what a user interacts with is the DE, installation is the only real sticking point between all these systems at this point, that and package management. Outside of installation and the package manager they’re basically the same as far as the casual user is concerned. And for arch, once you get past the installation, it’s package manager is just better than apt. And EndeavorOS does the installation for you. So it’s better.

What do you mean with robust here?

If you’ve ever “held broken packages” you’ll know what I mean by robust. I’ve had an entire distro upgrade break in Debian, it seems with a Debian system, eventually, you’re wiping and reinstalling because something broke. I have had this happen to every single Debian system I’ve installed since the gnome2 days.

When I talk about Debian and arch, I’m also talking of their downstream distros. So Mint would be a desktop oriented downstream distro for Debian. It inherits all the problems that come along with Debian, just as Manjaro or EndeavorOS would inherit anything that comes along with running arch. This is all in addition to any issues caused by those distros themselves.

I wouldn’t recommend any new person install arch, in fact I don’t even do it because I get tired of the installation process. I’d recommend someone install EndeavorOS, which is just arch without the installation issues. If someone wants a Debian based system, I’ll recommend Linux Mint, but if you don’t already know why you want a Debian based system, if you’re just looking for a desktop that works, I’ll recommend EndeavorOS because the underlying Arch system is just IMO better than a Debian system.

Also, I used to be a gnome2 guy, then Mate and then xfce, but these days I find xfce breaks on upgrade no matter what system it’s running on, and it’s incredibly bloated these days. So now I recommend KDE, I find it to be really nice, though I don’t use it (I’m nuts and so run a tiling Wayland setup) but for people looking to replace windows, just have a desktop that’s close to what they’re used to, I’ll say EndeavorOS with KDE, or secondarily, Mint with KDE, and I think that about covers anyone’s general desktop needs.

Says who? The days when this was true are long gone. Ubuntu is no longer the user friendly everyman’s desktop system anymore. Arch is extremely user friendly, just not the installation process. I find it to be much less of a pain in the ass to use than Debian based systems. For one, you have the Arch User Repository, so you’re very unlikely to need to not be able to find some software you want, and more importantly, so many packages in Debian are out of date and they take forever to update them, stuff often breaks because the version needed as a dependency for something else is not in the repositories.

For people who want to use arch but don’t want to manually do everything I highly recommend EndeavorOS. You fly through a wizard, just like Mint or something desktop oriented, and you wind up with a nice, working environment, but it’s Arch tooling instead of Debian tooling. The biggest and for most people only noticeable difference is the package manager, and pacman is so much more robust than apt.

I get frustrated online when I see people saying “Ubuntu is the most user friendly distro” or “arch is not for noobs”, this stuff was true like 10 years ago, that’s no longer the case. Ubuntu is user hostile, and there are arch derivatives that are basically arch with a graphical installer, which is the only part of using arch that is hard for people who aren’t hardcore nerds. It’s not like Gentoo or Void or Alpine or Nix or running a BSD system or something advanced like that.

Isn’t this just a ripoff of the “information that will lead to the arrest of Hillary Clinton” meme?

Yeah man, used to be you could spend like 5 or 6 bucks and get something quick. Full meal too. Nowadays I think those companies are just riding on inertia, Americans are used to eating it and still have this idea that it’s cheaper even though if you think about it for a second it’s not. By the time you pay it’s like 10-12 bucks. Meanwhile there’s a Cuban lady down the street, she has no menu, she just makes one thing each day it’s something different, whatever she wants, you don’t get to decide, you hand her 10 bucks and she hands you a little box of the most delicious surprise you’ve ever had. Why would I pick the corpo garbage over that?

I started living this way too. Honestly, fast food doesn’t even have a value proposition anymore. It’s not cheaper than some local family run taco or burger truck/shack, and significantly crappier. Also, the lady or guy handing you your food keeps the money after paying the cook and what not, if they’re not the cook themselves. I’d rather that than it go to frozen patty distributors and stock buybacks or whatever they’re up to these days.

It’s marginally cheaper than a run of the mill sit down joint.

Also soda… I don’t understand why anyone drinks that shit. I used to, then I stopped, and now when I try it it’s gross honestly. Syrup with bubbles in it. You want some, make some ginger ale, its easy and delicious. You cut up some ginger, cook it in a pot with sugar and water, let it cool, put it in a pressure bottle and pitch yeast, it’s ready in a couple of days.

I’ve never ordered door dash or any of that stuff, as soon as I heard about it o was put off by the idea.

You’ve got the right idea man. No lazy food. If it’s not worth effort you’re not actually hungry.

Onions.

In fact it’s the oldest food, found everywhere domesticated and nobody knows where they come from or who first domesticated them.