Not a good look for Mastodon - what can be done to automate the removal of CSAM?

  • duncesplayed@lemmy.one
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    52
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    1 year ago

    If I can try to summarize the main findings:

    1. Computer-generated (e.g…, Stable Diffusion) child porn is not criminalized in Japan, and so many Japanese Mastodon servers don’t remove it
    2. Porn involving real children is removed, but not immediately, as it depends on instance admins to catch it, and they have other things to do. Also, when an account is banned, the Mastodon server software is not sending out a “delete” for all of their posted material (which would signal other instances to delete it)

    Problem #2 can hopefully be improved with better tooling. I don’t know what you do about problem #1, though.

    • fubo@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      39
      arrow-down
      11
      ·
      1 year ago

      One option would be to decide that the underlying point of removing real CSAM is to avoid victimizing real children; and that computer-generated images are no more relevant to this goal than Harry/Draco slash fiction is.

      • PoliticalAgitator@lemm.ee
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        2
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        1 year ago

        And are you able to offer any evidence to reassure us that simulated child pornography doesn’t increase the risk to real children as pedophiles become normalised to the content and escalate (you know, like what already routinely happens with regular pornography)?

        Or are we just supposed to sacrifice children to your gut feeling?

        • fubo@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          2
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          edit-2
          1 year ago

          Would you extend the same evidence-free argument to fictional stories, e.g. the Harry/Draco slash fiction that I mentioned?

          For what it’s worth, your comment has already caused ten murders. I don’t have to offer evidence, just as you don’t. I don’t know where those murders happened, or who was murdered, but it was clearly the result of your comment. Why are you such a terrible person as to post something that causes murder?

          • PoliticalAgitator@lemm.ee
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            3
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            1 year ago

            I have no problem saying that writing stories about two children having gay sex is pretty fucked in the head, along with anyone who forms a community around sharing and creating it.

            But it’s also not inherently abuse, nor is it indistinguishable from reality.

            You’re advocating that people just be cool with photo-realistic images of children, of any age, being raped, by any number of people, in any possible way, with no assurances that the images are genuinely “fake” or that pedophiles won’t be driven to make it a reality, despite other pedophiles cheering them on.

            I was a teenage contrarian psuedo-intellectual once upon a time too, but I never sold out other peoples children for something to jerk off too.

            If you want us to believe its harmless, prove it.

            • fubo@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              2
              arrow-down
              3
              ·
              1 year ago

              You keep making up weird, defamatory accusations. Please stop. This isn’t acceptable behavior here.

              • PoliticalAgitator@lemm.ee
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                2
                arrow-down
                1
                ·
                1 year ago

                Awful pearl-clutchy for someone advocating for increased community support for photorealistic images of children being raped.

                Which do you think is more acceptable to Lemmy in general? Someone saying “fuck”, or communities dedicated to photorealistic images of children being raped?

                Maybe I’m not the one who should be changing their behavior.

                • fubo@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  arrow-down
                  3
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  FYI: You’ve now escalated to making knowingly-false accusations about a specific person.

                  • PoliticalAgitator@lemm.ee
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    3
                    arrow-down
                    1
                    ·
                    1 year ago

                    Quality play. That’ll absolutely convince people that you’re the good guy if they somehow find themselves at the bottom of this thread without having read your wet mouthed defense of the sharing of photorealistic images of children being raped.

    • HughJanus@lemmy.ml
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      5
      ·
      1 year ago

      I don’t know what you do about problem #1, though.

      Well the simple answer is that it doesn’t have to be illegal to remove it.

      The legal question is a lot harder, considering AI image generation has reached levels that are almost indistinguishable from reality.

      • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        3
        ·
        edit-2
        1 year ago

        In which case, admins should err on the side of caution and remove something that might be illegal.

        I personally would prefer to have nothing remotely close to CSAM, but as long as children aren’t being harmed in any conceivable way, I don’t think it would be illegal to post art containing children. But communities should absolutely manage things however they think is best for their community.

        In other words, I don’t think #1 is a problem at all, imo things should only be illegal if there’s a clear victim.