I also think that it’s not a great take that the OS vendor shouldn’t include decent default apps for most people. I mean, I know we’re in c/linux, but the vast majority of people don’t want to start with a terminal and build their system out from there. Hell, even the vast majority of linux users don’t, so then it’s just nitpicking where the line of which defaults should be included is.
I have to believe the person who uses Apple Notes, Reminders, Safari, Calendar, etc
I am that person now. Your example about Reminders is basically exactly why. I used to try and then pay for a ton of services to cover reminders/todos because I too was looking for that perfect app that worked just the way I wanted, and really the only thing I got out of it was making a slightly different trade off that I was then paying for in quite a lot of cases. it also happens that nearly all of those apps were closing gaps with the reasons I moved away from them to begin with. For the average user, they likely won’t even look much past the defaults because the defaults are actually pretty good, and so if you don’t have an advanced use case, your needs are covered. Like, I used Trello and Todoist for kanban for larger projects and it’s now native in Reminders.
Yep. If we want to get technical here on c/linux, Linux is just the kernel, and it’s really GNU that users are interacting with, which is a collection of default apps and the libraries to run them. And a Linux distro is just a collection of defaults someone put together. Every distro is a different opinion on what the default should be. That’s why there are so many. Maybe if the Linux community decided on one default there would be more progress on inroads with desktop Linux. Excessive choice hurts adoption. Let the choice come later for those users who want it.
The month view on Apple Calendar, on iOS, is the only reason I have a 3rd party calendar. I like to see what’s coming up at a high level and I can’t do that with Apple Calendar without tapping every square, or going to a larger device. I saw my sister do this square dance once and while it looked annoying, I’m sure she’s never even thought about looking for an alternative, she’s got better things to do.
All of this has me wanting to delete a bunch of apps.
Maybe if the Linux community decided on one default there would be more progress on inroads with desktop Linux.
Well, Linus at least agrees with you. I just watch a talk he gave the other day in which he described one of the biggest problems with Linux desktop being that the distros can’t even decide on a default package manager/way to package applications and all of the difficulties that creates.
It’s funny because even for simple stuff like when I used to update my Plex install manually I’d go to the Plex website, and the list is:
Windows
Mac
Linux:
Debian x 32 Bit
Debian x.1 32 Bit
Debian x 64 bit
Debian x.1 64 Bit
Fedora …
Ubuntu …
Cent …
and god help you if you’re not on one of those versions or you don’t use one of those distros.
That’s not even just an issue for the user trying to install an app, but it also prevents developers for shipping on Linux. I think I saw that talk you mention. He was saying there was some app he wrote that he didn’t bother releasing on Linux, because it was too much work. Then took a dig at the guys who spent the time to get it there. If the guy who wrote the Linux kernel isn’t releasing his apps on Linux, something is very wrong. I don’t know how that didn’t lead to a major change.
Electron has been the biggest help for getting mainstream apps on Linux. Flatpak, etc help too… but all of those come with extra bloat to make it happen.
These have been solved problems on Windows and macOS for so long.
I also think that it’s not a great take that the OS vendor shouldn’t include decent default apps for most people. I mean, I know we’re in c/linux, but the vast majority of people don’t want to start with a terminal and build their system out from there. Hell, even the vast majority of linux users don’t, so then it’s just nitpicking where the line of which defaults should be included is.
I am that person now. Your example about Reminders is basically exactly why. I used to try and then pay for a ton of services to cover reminders/todos because I too was looking for that perfect app that worked just the way I wanted, and really the only thing I got out of it was making a slightly different trade off that I was then paying for in quite a lot of cases. it also happens that nearly all of those apps were closing gaps with the reasons I moved away from them to begin with. For the average user, they likely won’t even look much past the defaults because the defaults are actually pretty good, and so if you don’t have an advanced use case, your needs are covered. Like, I used Trello and Todoist for kanban for larger projects and it’s now native in Reminders.
Yep. If we want to get technical here on c/linux, Linux is just the kernel, and it’s really GNU that users are interacting with, which is a collection of default apps and the libraries to run them. And a Linux distro is just a collection of defaults someone put together. Every distro is a different opinion on what the default should be. That’s why there are so many. Maybe if the Linux community decided on one default there would be more progress on inroads with desktop Linux. Excessive choice hurts adoption. Let the choice come later for those users who want it.
The month view on Apple Calendar, on iOS, is the only reason I have a 3rd party calendar. I like to see what’s coming up at a high level and I can’t do that with Apple Calendar without tapping every square, or going to a larger device. I saw my sister do this square dance once and while it looked annoying, I’m sure she’s never even thought about looking for an alternative, she’s got better things to do.
All of this has me wanting to delete a bunch of apps.
Well, Linus at least agrees with you. I just watch a talk he gave the other day in which he described one of the biggest problems with Linux desktop being that the distros can’t even decide on a default package manager/way to package applications and all of the difficulties that creates.
It’s funny because even for simple stuff like when I used to update my Plex install manually I’d go to the Plex website, and the list is:
Windows
Mac
Linux: Debian x 32 Bit Debian x.1 32 Bit
Debian x 64 bit
Debian x.1 64 Bit
Fedora …
Ubuntu …
Cent …
and god help you if you’re not on one of those versions or you don’t use one of those distros.
That’s not even just an issue for the user trying to install an app, but it also prevents developers for shipping on Linux. I think I saw that talk you mention. He was saying there was some app he wrote that he didn’t bother releasing on Linux, because it was too much work. Then took a dig at the guys who spent the time to get it there. If the guy who wrote the Linux kernel isn’t releasing his apps on Linux, something is very wrong. I don’t know how that didn’t lead to a major change.
Electron has been the biggest help for getting mainstream apps on Linux. Flatpak, etc help too… but all of those come with extra bloat to make it happen.
These have been solved problems on Windows and macOS for so long.