You must log in or register to comment.
It’s simple: Germany always does what Israel wants.
You know, because of our history.
There are many people (especially the older generation) who think we as Germans can’t say anything bad about Israel no matter what they do.
Germany is the expert on this. When they point out that the allegations are bullshit, that’s an opinion worth listening to. When Iran, South Africa and the rest of the proxys make those claims, maybe not worth the same value even if it aligns with your tik tok inspired understanding of the situation.
Let’s listen to the people who literally did the holocaust on issues of genocide /s
Yes, quite literally. They understand what’s at stake for society as well or better than anyone on the planet right now.
They’re also a good example of how deradicalization efforts can be effective, not perfect but effective as reestablishing a modern liberal democracy. Gaza will need something other than what they currently have for an education system if they are to develop into anything other than a terrorist enclave.
Yes, quite literally. They understand what’s at stake for society as well or better than anyone on the planet right now.
Really? More than jewish holocaust survivors and their descendents? Get a fucking grip.
It is embarrassing that anyone upvoted this nonsense.
They’re also a good example of how deradicalization efforts can be effective, not perfect but effective as reestablishing a modern liberal democracy.
Are you living in the reality where Germany doesn’t have a far right extremism problem, and where denazification was actually successful?
Gaza will need something other than what they currently have for an education system if they are to develop into anything other than a terrorist enclave.
Yes, radicalization happens because of bad education, and not because Israel keeps stealing their land and killing them.
There are Holocaust survivors who believe it’s a genocide, they’re absolutely worth listening to. There are survivors who have devoted their lives to the issue who are saying it’s not, they’re absolutely worth listening to. That you’re only willing to listen to those who agree with you is part of the problem. The guy standing for Israel, has stood before this same court in the past but all of a sudden he’s not a valid expert? Get a grip.
As I pointed out, the efforts aren’t perfect they’re ongoing. Germany is still clearly working on it, they’re also struggling with right wing immigration issues and a host of other issues. None of that takes away from the turnaround they’ve done and continue to do.
Yes. People aren’t born to hate they’re taught to hate. If you’re going to act like kids in Gaza aren’t taught to hate in school, and in training camps then you’re either defending terrorists or you’re just ignorant. Education that doesn’t include systemic Antisemitic curriculum has proven effective in neighboring countries at reducing radicalization. The people of Gaza deserve that same chance.
Yes. People aren’t born to hate they’re taught to hate. If you’re going to act like kids in Gaza aren’t taught to hate in school, and in training camps then you’re either defending terrorists or you’re just ignorant.
If you think that kids and Gaza need to be taught to hate when the colonizer is out there already teaching them through violence youre just ignorant. If you want to stop training camps existing in the first place, stop the settler colonial project.
Read Fanon liberal.
So you’re saying that you think the curriculum and education, that involves coloring books showing the shooting of Jews and hands on training with weapons for elementary school children isn’t a problem?
On a technical note, Jews didn’t colonize Judea. They’ve been there since before the Arabs. They decolonized the region, Palestine and Gaza is literally a colony in practice.
So you’re saying that you think the curriculum and education, that involves coloring books showing the shooting of Jews and hands on training with weapons for elementary school children isn’t a problem?
Sure it is a problem, and it isnt going to solved until Israel stops being a settler colonial apartheid state or they entirely murder or displace every Palestinian. I’m guessing you prefer the latter?
On a technical note, Jews didn’t colonize Judea. They’ve been there since before the Arabs. They decolonized the region, Palestine and Gaza is literally a colony in practice.
What not ever reading a book on colonial theory does to a motherfucker
We are all from Africa, but if you went to Libya and started killing people and claiming their land as your own, you’d be a fucking settler. So to with Israel.
The “journalism” about israel/gaza here in germany is a complete shame across the board. German media, even (or especially) the publicly funded media, literally try to hide the discussions that the rest of the world is having about this war. Things like these: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/10/world/middleeast/israel-qatar-money-prop-up-hamas.html
And of course they are failing. Also, whenever something happens that they can’t ignore, they use euphemisms to describe war crimes of the israli side instead of just stating the facts. Many journalists are literally scared to lose their jobs if they report to honestly about this conflict. It’s insane.
Thats simply incorrect. For example ‘Deutschlandfunk Der Tag’ did a long series (~5 hours) about the impact of the war on Palestinians living under Hamas occupation during the war and their feelings towards Israel. They even did a Meta-report ‘How much attention does the dying in Gaza get in german media’ where they interviewed Salma Abuzaina, a Palestine activist in germany.
Maybe you just don’t consume public funded media if you haven’t heard any report about it. The conflict between reporting on Palestinian deaths and Isreali deaths without negating the suffering of any of the parties is a huge topic in german media.
See my other german comment for a reply to exactly that. I know that DLF is mostly doing a good job but that’s not my point. Sorry, but its to tedious for me to keep discussing this in english.
The basic idea and institutional tenets of the German policy of remembering the Holocaust are sound and correct. They are quite literally a model for other societies who are descended from horrible horrible people. Like I wish the US and Canada did a fraction of what German does to acknowledge and honour their own very dark past of colonization and genocide.
It seems however that one particular thing has gone very wrong: they have adopted a bizarre definition of anti-semitism that precludes most opposition to the state of Israel, even when Israel does plainly indefensible things. And because we are talking about Germans, for whom rules really fucking matter, this has lead them to some truly bizarre situations such as persecuting Jews who criticize Israel as antisemitic.
And when Israel does step over the line, and Jewish Israeli Holocaust scholars, like Omer Bartov, are telling you this has started to really stink of genocide, the Germans find themselves in an impossible bind, which they resolve in the shittiest way possible by taking a side and condemning the other side as antisemitic.
They could and should have plainly said: this is a complex matter, but we trust the ICJ, we will wait for their determination, no further comment. That would have been an entirely honourable position for them to take. But no, they forced themselves into a position of having to defend one of the two litigants, like a caricature of an annoying white saviour “ally”, like the worst caricature of the male nice guy “feminist” who mansplains feminism to women.
Germany can very well be an authority when it comes to far right antisemitism. If they say a right wing group is anti-semitic, I am by default inclined to believe them. But when it comes to criticizing Israel, when there are multi-dimensional nuances and complexities, and when Israel itself is under a right wing extremist government, Germany is far from an authority that should have any fucking say about which Jewish public voice, like Masha Gessen, is … being anti-Semitic.
