I’m not trying to convince anyone to go back i promise, quite the contrary actually cause I think spez plans to just decrease the cost of the API and act like it was a bargain deal sacrifice while not solving any of the issues at all
But, when I think about it even if spez did actually listen and reverse all changes I don’t think i want to go back to Reddit cause from what Ive seen Lemmy is just friendlier and less :Be Corporate Friendly: I would honestly love it if Lemmy did a project like r/place one of these days so we could see what the internet is actually like instead of what happened in 2022 (I really did enjoy what a bunch of communities did but when the mods started abusing their powers to make it corporate r/place lost so much meaning) but i am curious since i’m not going back is there anything Reddit can do to make you go back to Reddit?
I think many people were looking for a reason to leave but kind of felt stuck seeing all the alternatives being either dead or abrasive.
Lemmy seems to have captured the soul of what a significant portion of people have already been looking for.
A week ago: Bring down the API costs. I’d have begrudgingly accepted paying a few extra bucks a year for Apollo Ultra.
Today: Nothing. Reddit admins acted like smug children in the face of the Apollo Dev’s good faith questions, then the CEO and admins pulled the stunt of trying to act like the dev threatened them. Then the CEO doubled down on that story in the sham AMA. I don’t want to feed that machine anymore.
I have edited and then deleted all my posts and comments except for a few final ones that will go soon. I will keep the account but only as a point of contact for some people until I get them all contacting my email instead.
Same. Maybe if u/spez got fired and the new CEO did a complete 180, but that’s not going to happen.
No Spez
No current reddit admins
No API fees
No other weird 3rd party killing nonsense
Everybody gets frosty chocolate milkshakes
That would be a maybe.
And an apology to Christian, the dev of Apollo, on the napkins that come with the milkshakes!
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And no more power mods
- No IPO
They’ve got this all wrong:
“No, IPO!”
Oops, shouldn’t have this free API on here either.
Charging for APIs is not the problem, the problem is the deceitful, smug and bad faith approach to it.
The symptom is that they even considered it. The problem is that they are a for-profit company that systematically doesn’t care about us at all.
Not only that. They are a for profit company that is extremely dependent on volunteers to moderate their subs. I feel like they are going to learn a hard lesson about alienating your volunteer workforce.
Yeah, this is why I would prefer to remain on Lemmy unless there’s literally no content, which doesn’t look like it’s going to be an issue :)
It’s quite the opposite at this point. Reddit isn’t really in control anymore. Rather, something drastic would have to happen to Lemmy to cause me to leave. Reddit is no longer the default choice.
And lemmy is deliberately designed so that such a drastic event is virtually impossible. If people don’t like how lemmy.ml is being moderated, they can go to another instance. If people don’t like how the lemmy spec works, they can fork it and ignore the part they don’t like.
That is a truly frightening idea for Reddit
Same. Using Lemmy is like a breath of fresh air.
I’ve only been here for a day, but the lack of homophobia and transphobia here compared to Reddit has been a breath of fresh air. I’m not afraid of posting here like I was on Reddit, where I’d actually have to debate with myself for a minute or two before posting. It’s like finally leaving a bad relationship; now I’m starting to see how bad that all was for my mental health.
Use the report button if you see any of that too, we will not tolerate it here.
Reddit thrives off of letting homophobes and transpbobes ruin everyone’s day, because it drives up their engagement numbers. We aren’t going to allow that here.
That’s a real relief to me. I see enough of that living in a very red town in a red state. Online communities are one of my only ways to talk to people who don’t want me gone.
There are lemmy instances hosting that kind of scum… but your instance can defederate (block) that whole server. BeeHaw does it pretty proactively.
This is so relieving tbh its mindboggling to me why all these massive sites never took a stance against homophobes/racists/transphobes like this. its been proven to hurt profits when hate is allowed on any site as people dont like being abused like i swear it cant just be that the CEOs were complacent although its sadly a dumb enough reason to be true.
Also been loving your app Dessalines its been great so far :D (if you tab out of the screen while writing though it does delete text but that aint a real issue though lol)
Thanks! Ya spending any amount of time on reddit or in youtube comments is a hair-pulling experience.
Huffman was always a white supremacist libertarian (and one of those ultra-rich preppers
Oh my lord was he one of the idiots that tried to get a study on how to force a militia group to serve them after an apolcolapse? I remember that story from years ago
Yep. My personal “favorite” quote from that article is incredibly telling of how spez thinks of himself.
“Being around other people is a good thing. I also have this somewhat egotistical view that I’m a pretty good leader. I will probably be in charge, or at least not a slave, when push comes to shove.” - Steve “spez” Hoffman
Wth no wonder he stayed off the site I think half of Reddit would drop kick him for being in a thread
It’s so interesting to me to hear things like this, because I have to guess you’re in completely different subs than I was / am in. I never saw anything like that, but I also don’t recall seeing very much “cesspool” on reddit either. Of course, I only went to 4 subs regularly and a total of maybe 15 ever?
Which is kind of the hard part for lemmy is the “niche” stuff (like photography is much smaller here, and the main photo sub is like one or two pics per day, so we really need something like ITAP or photocritique), multitools, etc.
The worst of it, by far, is of course the front page. But some of the subs I can think of off the top of my head where I encountered trans or homophobia are r/Science and even r/Pathfinder2e (if you know anything about the Pathfinder universe, this might seem mind boggling). There was pro LGBTQ+ support in many of these subreddits, but there was always a comment or a debate or whatever in every queer related thread.
The subreddit for the state I live in, while generally supportive, has numerous comments debating my right to exist as a queer person in most threads even vaguely LGBT related. It’s frustrating knowing I could basically only find refuge in LGBT subreddits. Everywhere else, there was always someone making a jab or starting an argument. It’s exhausting.
Wow - I’m so glad I never got into the front page at all, or looked for subs based on location. I always thought that was a Facebook thing (and I don’t use facebook). I suppose the only place I would have seen anything like that was in changemyview which is where you go to have an argument anyway.
I joined my state’s subreddit to keep an eye on local happenings. Our news outlets aren’t the best, so it was a good way to hear what was going on. For the most part, it was a good community. But there was always a handful of people who had to argue equal rights every time it came up and it was disheartening to see the same hate every single time.
Apparently I should get into photography, because your experience on Reddit sounds so chill! LOL
Well, we just argue a lot about sensor size / format, is Canon or Sony better and how many thousands of dollars we spent on cameras and lenses. Many people have opinions. I guess it’s not attacking anyone’s identity, unless you think Sony Fanboy is a critical part of your person. Kind of like the IT OS wars lol.
But yes, that and like multitools - we’re arguing about Victorianox vs Leatherman… These sorts of subs are pretty chill, and not a lot of drama that I can remember. I think things that are about something you’re a fan of, rather than location or very broad seem to be a lot better experience on reddit. And sadly, these are the communities I mostly access on my phone via RedReader and that I either would be spamming or just confusing many members if I said come on over to the lemmyverse. There are some standalone forums from long ago though that still run, so I might have to go over there if I care enough.
I’m all for a good debate. I frequented the technology subreddits since they’re related to my work and I love a good OS or language debate. I’ve learned a lot from hearing other people’s arguments. So that all sounds like friendly banter to me!
I do think the smaller the subreddit, the safer you are. Most of my best experiences are in those subreddits. I just found myself wishing I could explore Reddit a bit more without walking away bummed out by all the hate. It’s hard finding a good subreddit.
I can imagine that - I just never really felt the need to explore reddit, which might be my loss, and also why I don’t get a lot of “how reddit is”. I’m painfully out of touch for being so online (never did facebook or twitter at all), and really prefer stuff that is open…
So I’m aware I have a weird view of the online world - but I guess it’s also why I’m incensed about killing third party apps. I hate the change away from protocols where you could choose how you interacted with the net to products where the UI changes on a whim, usually for the worse, and you’re “running in place” just to do today what you did yesterday. What pisses me off the most is there’s no reason the world needs to be this way - Companies sold new cars every year without swapping around the pedals ever other year. Most home improvements are improvements but aren’t changing the UI for the house. LED bulbs don’t actually require an app for instance. We’ve had chainsaws for decades and even the electric ones work the same way and look about the same.
I don’t know why computers and the net can’t be like that. Why can’t I use Thunderbird or Vivaldi while you use Outlook and Firefox but we aren’t cutting each other off? This is why I like the fediverse. It’s why I liked IRC, and e-mail. It’s one of my main reservations about even otherwise good tools like Signal.
And it’s not like usenet providers or e-mail servers don’t make money. But back to my main point that people won’t pay for access, though I think if we went back to something more like usenet where you paid for “all the groups” rather than on a per site / per forum basic might work or again get bundled with your ISP like email and usenet were.
For me, you are perfectly describing my move from Twitter to Mastodon. It was such a relief and I am currently in a much better headspace. All because I moved to Mastodon.
You deserve some good internet points!
Oh geez. Twitter is such a nightmare. I had to quit last year when things started getting bad. I haven’t dipped my toes in Mastodon. Has your experience been much more positive? I’m scared I’ll end up stuck in a bad server!
I’ve been on Twitter since '09, so I’ve seen a few things ;-)
But, I friggin’ love it! The people I follow (and follow me back) on Mastodon, are super chill. It’s like S-tier! It truely is.
If you are worried about being stuck on a bad server. Mastodon nowadays has a “covenant” which basically revolves around the following points;
- Active moderation against racism, sexism, homophobia and transphobia.
- Daily backups
- At least one other person with emergency access to the server infrastructure
- Commitment to give users at least 3 months of advance warning in case of shutting down
So as long as you pick one of the servers there, you are pretty much golden. The server list can be found here: https://joinmastodon.org/servers
I am on mastodon.online (one of the servers by Mastodon itself) which has been a blast, but I can also vouch for mstdn.social. The admin of mstdn.social, “Stux” is a super great guy!
Is my understanding correct that from certain instances of Lemmy I can also access mastodon’s federated links?
Actually, as long as the Mastodon and Lemmy servers are federated with each other, you can access Lemmy from Mastodon (and the other way around). If they aren’t federated yet, you can ‘force’ that federation by visiting a community via the search engine. That should start the whole federation process, unless of course either one of the servers has decided to ‘defederate’ with the other server.
But in Mastodon you can use
@community@serverin the searchbar, and you will see all the responses on Mastodon. So for example,@lemmy@lemmy.mlor@Technology@beehaw.org.Is it possible to federate the whole site, or do you have to do it by community specifically?
Federation is always done on instance level. What I mean by that is being able to communicate between instance A and instance B. Whether or not data is actually being shared from instance A to instance B depends a user on instance A is subscribed to a community on instance B (or vice versa).
I hope that clears up a few things :)
That’s a relief to hear. There’s been a Twitter shaped hole in my heart since I quit. I think I’d been a Twitter user since my freshman year of college and I’m in my 30s now. LOL
You’ve convinced me to give Mastodon a chance! Thank you for your reassurance. It really does sound like what Twitter should have been.
I can completely understand that hole in your heart ;-) You’ve basically been on Twitter as long as I was. LOL.
You’ve convinced me to give Mastodon a chance! Thank you for your reassurance. It really does sound like what Twitter should have been.
It really is and you are welcome! 😊
This would be huge. The first instance I joined on lemmy has been down now for a few days. Don’t even know how to reach the guy that runs it. It was not some super small one based on the site recs at the time.
I’m a sysadmin by trade and considered just building my own but don’t have the time to solo run it should it gain traction
Yeah! I can also imagine Lemmy introducing something like that. As a somewhat ‘soft’ endorsement of a particular server.
I think setting baselines like that, would improve servers a lot and sets out standards within communities.
i kind of want reddit to die now. people talking to one another shouldn’t be monetized or debased through some spyware algorithm run by antisocial dickheads.
They’ve lost me for good. Lemmy is a huge learning curve but I’m here for it. It reminds me of an early Reddit right around the Digg era. I’m excited.
Honestly, I feel like my time with Reddit is done now. You know how when someone breaks up with you and you’re in shock that it’s over but then you start reflecting and realising everything that was wrong with the relationship? That. I feel like Lemmy, and the fediverse, is a really interesting alternative way of doing things, I’m not the most tech savvy (or the least) and at nearly 50 it’s a bit harder for me to pick up new concepts than it was 20 years ago, but I’ll get the hang of it, and I actually think that this will end up being a positive change for me. There is so much wrong with the corporatisation of the internet, and this does feel like a viable and genuine alternative to that.
I’m in the same boat. I believe we’ll get the hang of it eventually thou. See you around.
I remember Reddit being quite confusing when I started and different to most social media. It took me a while to get my head around following communities and not individuals. Federation is something quite different, but the feel is very old school reddit and I’m finding it pretty easy to learn, just with less creature comforts at the moment that I’m sure will come with time.
That’s exactly how I feel. Even just the way comments were structured was weird, let alone the idea of subreddits
Yep, most of my friends don’t use Reddit ‘because it’s too confusing’. They stick to FB and Instagram, even while moaning about capitalism and corporates. The sad fact is that the corporates have the money to make their UIs super easy to use. Plus a lot of people only want the connections to other individuals from their social media, they’re not interested in something broader than that. I’m hoping the format here keeps the bots away, that’s been another nail in the Reddit coffin for me. It’s become a site filled with bots commenting on botposts.
Very well put. The whole API thing started a process for me that will not be reversed. Reddit is stained now.
There’s dozens of us!
I’ll be real: I don’t want to go back. I want a return to actual communities and comradery, and an exodus from “social” influencers, on ad-riddled and bloated soap boxes.
It’s hard to say. A change in management maybe? Reddit has already gotten worse in recent years, but with betrayal of developers and users with the API, the way Spez intentionally lied about Apollo’s developer to the public, and with the upcoming IPO, I don’t see how things will get any better. It sucks because a lot of the information and utility Reddit has, I don’t know where to find elsewhere.
That being said, I’ve grown extremely tired of how the internet has seemed to have gotten worse and worse over the past 7-10 years. To me, this decentralization/fediverse is exciting because it seems like it has the possibility of making the internet feel freeing, fun, and human again.
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It’s a pipe dream but at this point that’s the only thing that would bring me back
Open sourcing won’t do much because the value of reddit are its users, not the code.
They would have to join the fediverse to rebuild to trust but of course there is 0% chance of that because their focus is $$$.
I agree with you that the feeling of no keymaster if very liberating.
same here, that’s the only thing that would make me even consider coming back.
also just better management in general is desperately needed, spez needs to go.
Reverse API changes, fire Spez, and sticky an apology to the frontpage.
But even if they did that, I’m not going back 😂
I’ve been tired of reddit for a while, too many bots, too many bad mods, too many psychos and trolls. Basically, it’s just too crowded. It’s nothing like it was when I joined in 2010. The spirit of the site died a long time ago and you can’t get it back.
Exactly this. spez isn’t fit to be a CEO and clearly needs to go, but even if they canned him, I’m out. The only thing reddit has going for it now is its popularity which means it gets lots of traffic. The bots are out of control, the spam is out of control, and the general atmosphere is awful and nothing like it once was. Lemmy/Beehaw/which ever instance you use is a little slow, sure, but to me that’s the perfect excuse to break off from my addiction to reddit and have a site I check only a couple times a day.
Right there with you.
I think they’ve made it clear that even if they backpedal now, they’re just testing the waters to see how much bullshit they can get away with and they’re going to do the absolute most they can… Even if they completely took a 180 and said they were keeping the API entirely free, I’d still be gone.
I always found it hard to engage with larger Reddit communities anyway; Lemmy and the Fediverse as a whole are much closer to what I wanted from Reddit but couldn’t get, so I’m here to stay no matter what happens. Fuck them.
u/spez fired, paid API policy reversed, NSFW policy change reversed, public apology to christian and all reddit users promoting lemmy who got banned + compensation for defamation, all decisions regarding site administration and API policy permanently democratized, so that this shit never happens again, make the whole thing open source.
I don’t expect a single thing on my list to happen, but everything on that list would have to happen before I considered returning.
I’m a bit OOTL on this I guess, but what NSFW policy changes are you talking about specifically? I was under the impression that they’ve stayed committed to continuing to allow NSFW content. I can’t seem to find any headlines mentioning any changes with all this API nonsense.
With that said though, I did see Huffman respond to a question in his AMA in a negative sounding way towards NSFW content, so that’s ominous. Also, I’ve heard that Reddit has recently been cracking down on subreddits with inactive moderators and not allowing appeals, with a specific target aimed at NSFW communities. Is there anything more specific that has come out lately with the API changes? Or are we talking more generally about their bans on subs like /r/WatchPeopleDie and whatnot?
they probably are referring to the fact that reddit isn’t allowing 3rd party apps to have NSFW content on them
Ahhh, I completely missed that news among the API pricing bullshit. I guess I was so focused on the fact that they’ve basically just nuked third party apps, that I didn’t notice that even if they reversed their shitty pricing, they also killed NSFW content on those apps.
completely understandable, there’s WAY too much shitty stuff happening at the moment with reddit to be able to keep track of it all honestly
Yup, thats what I meant!
He accused a small 3rd party app solo developer who was working for FREE of blackmailing and threatening him. Spez would have to step down and sell Reddit to someone with better integrity and morals for me to go back.
Yeah, firing spez and the leadership team that pushed this forward is the bare minimum for showing contrition here. I’m not against a paid API that has prices based in reality instead of whatever the hell they gave us, but fundamental changes to an API like this require a minimum 12 months lead time before the change goes active.
The 30 days they gave shows an intentional disregard for the business continuity and contractual obligations of the developers who utilize the API.
Today’s AMA was something else. I honestly don’t know how a founder of reddit doesn’t understand reddit users.
I really like/liked reddit. I’ve been on it since digg v4 happened. Rif dies, I’m done using reddit on my phone. I’m not installing their app. If old dies, then I’m completely done with reddit. I’m not using new. Chances are I’ll use reddit less and less anyway though.
On the topic of not understanding reddit users, the audacity that Spez had to double down on slandering the Apollo dev was jaw dropping. The reddit community came out in force with receipts and a recording! One look at how much effort and detail these people were putting into their questions and comments should have told him to back off, but he couldn’t help himself.
This really does feel like the Digg exodus of yesteryear
Just got to keep that momentum going.
