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Posting this at top level since its burried in replies:
Fact time. You don’t always die when shot, and the US is a baby factory. I can’t find good stats on non-lethal gunshot, so I’ll do the rest.
Verdict: Pretty accurate.
- 8.4% without health insurance (33 in 400)
- 11.5% poverty rate (46 in 400)
- 20% adults at or below literacy level 1 (80 in 400)
- 57% mental illness untreated (228 in 400) (requires math from NIH source)
References:
Btw your 20% figure includes those at Level 1 literacy, only 8% are below level 1 (from your source)
Oh good catch. Will edit.
What is level 1 defined as?
People with Level 1 Literacy can:
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Locate one piece of information in a sports article
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Locate the expiration date on a driver’s license
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Total a bank deposit entry
People with Level 2 Literacy can:
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Interpret appliance warranty instructions
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Locate an intersection on a street map
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Calculate postage and fees when using certified mail
People with Level 3 Literacy can:
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Write a brief letter to explain a credit card billing error
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Use a bus schedule to choose the correct bus to take to get to work on time
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Determine the discount on a car insurance bill if paid in full within 15 days
People with Level 4 Literacy can:
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Explain the difference between two types of benefits at work
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Calculate the correct change when given prices on a menu
People with Level 5 Literacy can:
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Compare and summarize different approaches lawyers use during a trial
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Use information in a table to compare two credit cards and explain the differences
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Compute the cost to carpet a room in a house
A lot of them seem to be mathematical questions
Damn, I’m fairly dumb but I think I could put this on my resume, I’m a lot higher in literacy than I expected.
i can’t interpret warranty instructions, but I’ve done the credit card thing. I also found the phones from the manufacturer that were compatable with my non-international telecommunications service. (I got the first Sony waterproof release in the age of ricepacks)
So I’m… esoteric.
I saw that warranty one and was like, welp, I’m already in trouble.
Then I got down to the lawyer one, and was like hey only lawyers can understand lawyers in court. A lawyer I am not.
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Here’s a good study on gunshoot statistics thay include nonletal gunshot wounds:
Which comes out to about 1/7 of a person in that room being shot per year.
I wanted to test myself to get a sense of what “level one literacy” actually meant but you have to pay to take the test and the OECD already gets enough of my money as is.
How convenient, you left out the shooting statistic. It’s fucking insanely wrong.
Quick Google results showed me between 15 and 20% lethality for single GSWs
That needs an addendum, otherwise it sounds like any GSW is about as lethal as covid19:
Not accounting for suicides and precision shooting, a single GSW is likely an accident, which drives the lethality down considerably. Filter out unintentional single GSWs and I bet the lethality is rather different.
This article indicates there’s no difference, in fact, and is lower than the conservative percentage I was getting earlier.
Maybe I’m reading the abstract wrong, but it appears that the article specifically compares single headshots with multiple GSW including a single head GSW. In which case there’s no significant difference.
But maybe I’m reading it wrong. I may be biased, because I really want to believe that JimBob shooting himself in the foot cleaning his gun, occurs with a higher frequency and with less mortality, than people shooting to kill.
I admit I didn’t look deep into that particular article. There are a lot of sources easy to find that show that multiple GSWs are surprisingly not that much more lethal, but they’re harder to repair. This one for example which lists 13% for single, and 18% for multiple.
You didn’t fact-check how many trans people there are in the U.S.1
It looks to be between 0.5% and 1.6% of the total U.S. population (2 - 6 in 400).
References:
- https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/wp-content/uploads/Trans-Pop-Update-Jun-2022.pdf
- https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2022/06/07/about-5-of-young-adults-in-the-u-s-say-their-gender-is-different-from-their-sex-assigned-at-birth/
Semi-related, the number of intersex people (in the literature they talk about people with “disorders of sexual development”) have also been estimated to be around 1% of the population (4 in 400), source:
https://www.nature.com/articles/518288a
1 yes, the U.S. isn’t mentioned in the OP, but your sources are looking at U.S. demographics and so I will continue with the U.S.-centrism already present.
Some Thoughts (oh boy):
There is a weird logic to pointing out how few trans people there are actually are in the OP. Even if there were many more trans people, (like if there really were 1 in 5 trans people as is commonly mis-perceived), would that make the GOP’s campaign of fear-mongering and animus any more justified? I don’t think this is what Shon (
@gayblackvet) was going for, but it almost seems like a consequence of how the message was written.Maybe I’m wrong here, but does it seem like way it is written implies that the problem is not that the trans panic is unjustified in its fear of trans people, but that it is merely blown out of proportion? Maybe the angle was that even if we assume trans people are a problem, it’s still so few people it’s not worth all this panic and legislation (there are >500 anti-trans bills in the U.S. right now, over 40 of them have already passed).
Rhetorically this perspective-taking might be effective in appealing to mildly transphobic centrists or moderate conservatives who are not entirely comfortable with trans people but who might not want to be perceived as transphobic and don’t want to be associated with the rabid and vocal transphobia of the GOP.
That wedge between a more moderate closeted transphobe and a more openly transphobic right-wing one is politically useful, so I am not necessarily complaining, but there is a concern here about whether tackling transphobia is really the goal here, and if so how we should best go about that.
That’s good to see a lot of the statistics are close, and I appreciate the sources.
That said, for a full picture, I think you should mention that the average 20 year old doesn’t have 18 gunshot wounds (365 wounds per 400 per year, is about 9.1 wounds per person per decade, or 18.2 wounds per 20 years per person)
So I’d appreciate if you include a bullet point about that.
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We’ve been through this before in the German Reich. It didn’t matter to antisemites that blood libel was a myth or the stab-in-the-back myth was contrived fiction to explain how sacred Germany lost the Great War. These people want to believe Other people are vermin and their precarity will be solved by deporting them to elsewhere.
So it is with the recent propaganda pushes against trans folk (also LGBT+) The groomer myth is so old we have PSA movies warning boys about The Homosexual in from the 1960s, when our society still gave zero fucks about children’s welfare.
The fear of the trans woman in the women’s rest room is the same as the fear of the black family in a white neighborhood. They are eager to believe violence is justified. And no piles of statistics about incidents and crime rates is going to change their minds. They want a valid cause to purge Americans, and will settle for a vicious rumor perpetuated by FOX News and OAN.
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my favourite is how tennessee effectively made insurance more expensive for everyone because one trans child wanted to play sports with her friends in school
what’s the story?
they basically put up a bill that banned tenncare from contracting with organizations that offer gender affirming care in any state, which is… a lot of organizations which limits the options which makes everything more expensive. at the time it was all based on a lawsuit from one 8 year old trans girl who wanted to play sports with her friends.
Wait is this stat for real or a hyperbole? Assuming this represents the demogrpahcis of US. With a population of 333 million, there are 1.6 million trans people and 830 000 prople are shot everyday?
It’s not even remotely accurate. Just a bunch of bullshit to make people angry.
According to the CDC, 1.03% of the population identifies as transgender. Not including people like me who are enby but not trans (1.4% who get their own other category).
As for the 1 in 400 getting shot, that’s obviously dubious, and the question is how they arrived at that value (say at a different time frame.) I’m working on it.
That said, as this is c/196, I posed it from my old reddit meme pile without checking the facts so I’m not invested in its veracity. The other numbers were verified in these comments, thank the Lemmy community.
So lets take a look at the everyday, at least 1 person is shot
This would assert %0.25 of the population receives one or more gunshot injuries each day or 830,000 gunshot victims per year
A Penn Medicine study claims the number is 329/day
Which is 0.000098% of the population or 120,167 victims a year.
Brady United clocks US gunshot victims at 117,345 per year or 0.035 of the population (321 victims a day).
I suspect our poster Shon was computing that one of his 400 Americans in a room (I presume folks in the US) was getting shot every year and misspoke / forgot to carry the one. It’s too easily detectable speaking to communities that will be eager to apply skepticism and dismiss the post in entirety.
I could also write this but like 2 trans people decided to ruin life of 10 others each round. And factual value would be about the same.
I’m sick of those victimize everything agendas to be honest.I prefer to meet trans people in person to get to know them and judge them based on their actions like any other person rather than what I believe is on their minds.
Sadly, there are multiple trans exclusionist movements in the US and UK who are glad to presume the worst of all trans folk, and seek to criminalize as much of their presence as possible when they aren’t advocating literally massacring them.
Even the TERFs of the UK have admitted they’re really not all that RF. It’s really about the TE.
Why would I be in the same room? Ew, I’m going back in my gated community and calling the cops
Wait, how are the illiterate who aren’t in poverty doing it?
There are a lot of manual labor, factory, and agriculture jobs that don’t require high literacy. It’s also not clear if they’re limiting it to “English literacy”.
Considering the questionable literacy of our last two Republican presidents, I think being very rich and capable of taking orders helps.
Well, in Trump’s case, the capacity to convince his handlers he can take orders.
Because all the other shit is those two people’s fault somehow, obvs.
They need to make up reasons why their god is being such a piece of shit.
This is what you get when you dumb down people.
If at least 1 person in the room of 400 is shot per day they’d be dead in just over a year…
Last I checked the population of the US wasn’t plummeting, so what else is wrong here?
Oh no I see the point, but I’m hardly going to believe a point that’s surrounded by obvious mistakes or embellishments
In this case, being more accurate would have distracted from the overall point.
Granted, attracting the dismissive comments of insufferable pedants and the wilfully obtuse isn’t ideal either, but here we are 🤷
How would being more accurate distract from the point? I agree with what the post is saying, but making up statistics doesn’t really help IMO and takes away from the credibility
Hyperbole and hypotheticals aren’t “making up statistics”
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It’s not misinformation if the post starts off as a hypothetical
Some people like you aren’t capable of thinking much further than your face though
It doesn’t seem like this post was meant to be hyperbolic though? Hyperbole doesn’t work well in the context of numbers. If someone said 1 in 100 people drive a Toyota, how would I differentiate that from being an actual figure or hyperbole? It’s not obvious unless you look into it. Likewise, if someone told me that 1 in 400 people in the US get shot every day I’d struggle to tell if that’s true or not, given how much I hear about gun crime over there.
This post is quite clearly framed in a way that sounds like fact.
Ok so you’re saying that you need to outright lie to get people to side with you?
That makes you sound like a politician, not a human rights advocate, but sure
Burning Man called. They want their gigantic strawman back.
Hyperbole and hypotheticals aren’t “outright lies”
Exact and false numbers given as proportions aren’t hyperbole, they’re misrepresentations, ie lies.
“Say you’re in a room”
It’s literally at the start of the post. Anyone who has eyes and can read now understands this is hypothetical
If anything the people pointing out how others are missing the point, are actually missing the point…
There’s a middle ground between ‘autistically measuring in decimals’ and blowing something completely out of proportion to make a forced point.
People are just getting defensive because it’s an underlying point they agree with (rightly so) and going on attack for anyone calling it out for being disingenuous.
Nope. That’s just objectively wrong.
The choice of 1 almost certainly wasn’t a deliberate exaggeration of the actual amount. It’s just the nearest number that isn’t too specific to distract from the overall argument and/or small enough that pro-gun advocates can use it as an argument for gun violence not being a problem at all.
You can’t say they’re just rounding up when they randomly decided to choose 400 as the starting point…
So what you’re saying is that 400 is completely random and because of that, it follows that 1 is meant to be accurate? 🤔
I’d say that it’s much more likely that they’re operating under the (incorrect but commonly believed) assumption that the US population is closer to 400m than 300m and both numbers are rounded up for simplicity.
The post says “at least 1” which implies that if anything they’re rounding that number down, because on some days that number is 2. So they’re suggesting that on any given day between 800,000 and 1.6 million Americans get shot, or that every single person in the country gets shot every 13 months or so.
If they’re going to use a number that wildly inaccurate then I immediately assume that every other number in the statement is equally inaccurate, even if that’s not actually the case.
Shot does not mean killed. Of the 327 average daily people shot, 210 survive. I will however admit that 1 in 400 people being shot a day does not represent the same ratio as the 327 out of the 330,000,000 a day at all.
Also birthrate
Not to detract from the overall message, buuuut…
48,313 gun deaths in US in 2021.
333,000,000 people in US
On those rates 0.05 people in a room of 400 would be shot per year, so 1 person per 20 years.
It’d 1 person every 2 years in a room of 4,000.
Also those mental health numbers are off given the lifetime prevalence of most disorders being around 5%.
2/400 (0.5%) of the population identifying as trans would be 1,665,000 people - which may be plausible but idk, I generally work on the figure of ~4% of any population being LBGTQI.
Poverty numbers are probably bang on.
“shot” does not mean “killed”.
What I can find is roughly 315 people getting shot every day in the US. Out of 333m, that’s roughly 1 in 1m daily. In a room of 400 that’s 1 per 6.8 years.
Good point. Still, though your numbers get to a similarly outlandish time period.
absolutely, it’s 3 times more, but still 3 orders of magnitude short.
Only 15-20% of single GSWs are lethal. The post doesn’t say “shot and killed”, just shot
Where did you get the 4% being LGBTQI number from?
For Australia it’s around 3-4% LGBT.
That’s from 2014 and only accounts for Australia, not any population also the survwy points out that among indigenous and Islander populations in Australia there aee more same sex couples.
Pls be more careful which such generalised statements and wether your source is reliable/saying what you want it to say. Also Wikipedia is not a good source to refer to.
Wikipedia is only a source of concern if the primary sources it cites are unreliable, in the linked article they refer to ABS data which is the most accurate population data for that country. No LGBT question was asked in the more recent Australian census. The ~4% of population being homosexual was a talking point during our same sex marriage plebiscite, hence why I use it.
However, in recent US census data 3.3% of the population respond as being Lesbian or Gay, with 4.4% bisexual https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2021/11/census-bureau-survey-explores-sexual-orientation-and-gender-identity.html. It’d be interesting to see how that percentage progresses as majority of positive respondents were in younger generations, while I doubt any will go from identifying as gay to then straight, we may see a decline in those who identify as bisexual as they age…but who knows.
Regardless, returning to the OC, the figures for trans were all around the 0.6 mark in most sources I saw, so the 2/400 in the OC is accurate.
Youre probably just trolling to troll, but
- Being shot doesn’t mean being killed
- Why do you assume the population doesn’t change? Ya know people can make babies right? We’re actually pretty good at it. Probably too good at it.
- Also, not the fucking point.
Fact time. You don’t always die when shot, and the US is a baby factory. I can’t find good stats on non-lethal gunshot, so I’ll do the rest.
Verdict: Pretty accurate.
- 8.4% without health insurance (33 in 400)
- 11.5% poverty rate (46 in 400)
- 20% adults below literacy level 1 (80 in 400)
- 57% mental illness untreated (228 in 400) (requires math from NIH source)
References:
Holy shit the literacy rate is kinda shocking…
Do people not like to read? A quarter of the population is fucking NUTS
One thing I haven’t noticed anyone else mention is that the literacy data being referenced here seems to originate from the PIAAC, an organisation that I wasn’t previously familiar with. I was curious about their methodology, since I also thought the quoted rate was shocking. The thing is, according to this FAQ, they only assess in English. So the number of people who are actually illiterate is inextricable from the number of people who are literate in another language, but haven’t learned English yet.
This video is a great discussion of literacy. To put that rate into context, ‘illiterate’ often includes people that can read and write a little bit, but still struggle with some vital or everyday tasks. According to Wikipedia, 20% of US adults have a literacy level at or below level 1 which would be 80 people in this example. This report has a ton of stats and also defines each level of literacy.
Some people didn’t have an opportunity to learn in the first place. Lack of education doesn’t make someone “fucking NUTS”.
85 is a bit high. It would be around 60, and that is the global illiteracy rate. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_literacy_rate Still too high though.
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Now the post says shot and not killed. I think that distinction is important. But I imagine those statistics are insane.
It’s insane because it’s still bullshit, 1 in 400 would mean that over 800,000 Americans get shot every day, and every single person in America gets shot every 13 months or so.
I fact checked in other comments 😉 OP is fairly accurate overall, but I didn’t include gunshots since I couldn’t find reliable enough stats on non-fatal.
