Hi
I am looking for projects of links agregators or micro blogs, that don’t rely on centralized servers and especially no mods. I’ve had it with mod’s power trips. and how personal biases affect heavy moderation.
I want to try something with no governance, maybe p2p, and with better transparency than lemmy.
I’m not sure, but in my opinion, moderation is necessary. Any network without moderation will be flooded with Nazis and pedophiles. I don’t think you’ll have a good time.
Based on the modlog, I think this person is probably one of the reasons I’m glad Lemmy has moderation. It’s possible some other community censored him for dumb reasons (like getting a post removed for sinophobia on .ml because of criticism of the CCP, which sometimes just happens) but most of the evidence I can find about removed posts were all weird stuff about American politics.
At this point I am disappointed with every other internet model that came out so far. and I don’t think that moderation has been a good addition, I can see the need for it if you are building a community around your own persona, like a streamer or influencer fandom. but for things like politcs and economies and stuff it just turns into echo chambers.
Sure but without moderation you’re left with a Nazi echo-chamber. When there’s no mechanism to kick out the Nazis, most normal people will leave over time. A platform that allows Nazis just becomes a Nazi platform.
You can go even broader. Its not only nazis and pedophiles. Every toxic behavior. If you dont have moderation, I can post pucs of dead children, gore and any phobia all day long and you can block me but you cant block the thousand bots I control (just an example, not real).
Moderation is evidently necessary, the amount is the point of discussion. People who despise moderation are either ignorant or toxic. Either they dont care about others having a reasonably pleasant experience without getting shit thrown at them or they like to throw it.
The internet and globalization has one major downside: we live in very different realities and some of us have very different needs than others. We dont belong in the same room all the time. We should be able to meet but we also need our space to be among our own. Thats why we have women‘s day in the public pools and certain other „discriminating“ measures. To keep folks safe and let them have fun.
Yeah I agree for the most part. I will say I think moderation can have problems though (example: Reddit for a while did that thing where they would ban 1 fascist subreddit for inciting violence against minorities and then also ban 10 leftist subreddits for people saying John Brown was based).
But I think it depends on how the platform is designed and how moderation is implemented. Lemmy’s implementation is some of the best I’ve seen.
But I do agree, some firm of moderation is necessary.
I fully agree with your argument and it was implied in what I wrote. Of course moderation can and will have flaws. It is the extremes that just never work.
You mean Twitter ? which every liberal, leftist and their grandma still using it, despite it turning into a Nazi platform
Yeah, I think the amount of non-fascist people has gone down since Musk bought Twitter. I anticipate it will continue with that trend. The process is not instant, especially when the platform is as pervasive as Twitter. But I think Twitter is a good demonstration of why moderation is a good thing.
And yeah, moderation is often not implemented in a perfect way. But I think Lemmy’s transparency (mod logs) approach is an improvement over traditional moderation.
Sounds like you’re looking for something like nostr. Still has servers (relays) but they don’t really do much moderation there. Last time I checked that turned the entire place into a mess of racists and spam, but that was more than a year ago I think, maybe more normal people joined.
Or you could set up your own Lemmy server where you’re the moderator, though other servers can still ban your account from there.
You can’t escape moderation and censorship in lemmy. If a moderator of a certain big community has a certain heavy bias towards a subject and moderates accordingly. you are just bared from such discussions. communities suffer from the same network effects as social media do. I can take heat and shitty people but I can’t stand silencing.
I might check nostr. is it app relient ??
You can start your own communities on your own server, but if moderators keep removing your stuff you may end up in a community by yourself. People generally don’t like unmoderated places. Most places that claim not to do moderation eventually end up doing so because of this. Look at Trump Social for a prime example.
Nostr has a web client and a few apps. Your account is a cryptographic key, basically, which you can use to send messages through any relay. If a relay goes down, all of your messages on that relay disappear, but your messages on other relays will still work and you can still use the same account to keep tweeting (nostring?).
Do you need to pay for those relays, or register with those relays like you to on lemmy to be able to post ?
can you move your account from one relay to another ?
Are ther modded communities or subreddits like they are on lemmy ?
Do you need an app to be constantly connected in the background like briar messenger or all content is hosted on the relays?
As far as I can tell they’re all free. I don’t the service myself, though. You can (should) add multiple relays to whatever app you use to use the protocol to the fullest.
The only account you have is the key and metadata stored on your device is my understanding. You can use any account with any relay and create as many as you need. All you need to sign in is your private key. Enter that into any nostr app connected to any nostr relay(s) and you’re good to go.
They don’t do communities last time I checked, it’s more of a Twitter alternative. The “shouting into the void” social media lends itself much better to moderation free environments than any attempts at discussion forums.
Host your own fediverse (Lemmy/Mastodon) instance. See who defederates from you.
No this federation experiment is at the end for me.
I don’t believe in the federation model anymore. I was looking for a p2p protocol like a big bitorrent swarm, something more decentralized where no one has power over the discussions. I want to filter the content I want to consume. I dont’t need someone else to decide what I should or should not read. I was hoping for an open network where every node have the same leverage and you only mod your own feed.
So basically, you don’t want people to be able to defederate from you?
Sounds like usenet with extra steps, no thanks.
No I want people to be able to block my post just as I can block other people’s posts, but I don’t need a moderator to block either my posts or other people’s posts to be seen by everybody else engaging in that discussion, thread, theme, hashtag, what ever you name it.
When blocking is done at an individual level it doesn’t silence or shutdown views or ideas from the discussions, every individual is free to not engage with people or ideas they don’t agree with, but they shouldn’t have the power to block those ideas for everybody else.
Create your own Lemmy community on your own instance then.
You kinda intentionally ignoring my point, I was asking for suggestion of different models, even different protocols if they exist. not instance - community - moderation based ones.
But you could accomplish your goal by just starting your own instance and then refusing to moderate content on it - sure, yourinstance/c/news might not get as much activity (or maybe it will take off) but you can’t force people who prefer to have moderation to play in your sandbox. You don’t need a new technology, lemmy can do what you want just fine - you can even refuse federation!
Give it a shot, try running an instance and see the difficulties in dealing with open nazis and bots.
unlike the others I see where you are coming at and it is also a bit of my dream. I would love to block or subscribe or throttle (give a rating that increases or decreases posts in the feed) at any level of individual, group, domain, etc. At the individual level I would like blocking to go both ways. I don’t see their content and they don’t see mine. I would like it to basically put us in different universes. I would like to be able to subscirbe to folks blocking lists. Im sure there is more that I have not figured out yet but I get where you are coming from.
I don’t think that’s feasible for anyone. Pretty soon your and every other user would be flooded with unwanted content, which will take time off all users individually to filter out. What this will result in is filterlists being made by community members, which the clients will use, some by default so that the system remains usable even for new users.
I don’t see how that would make a meaningful difference.
I mean sure, technically now it’s you who’s filtering, but is it really you if 1. the filterlists are maintained by a 3rd party and 2. you don’t have the capacity to audit all changes to the filterlists?
What you look for seems to be Nostr
I’m afraid open federated protocols are a censorship resistant as you’re going to get.
If you find a instance or a moderator on Lemmy is insufferable, you can start a new community or a new instance, lemmy is so small right now, basically everybody sees every new post every day. You make a new community, you make a new post, and people will see it.
Exactly that. Each instances has it’s own rules and as such, you can make your own on your own instance. Just don’t be surprised that some instances block you for not abliging to their standards, as they also control their own federation, like each individual instances.
Nostr
It’s a ghost town so not really fun/useful.
omg! that has a cli client
Thanks, at least this is a helpful response, Will check it out!
Sounds an awful lot like you’re trying to find illegal shit and have plausible deniability that “that’s not what I was looking for, officer! I swear! Someone just posted it on their own!”
According to your handle, it might be you who is intersted in that sort of shit, but you are instead reflecting it on others.
Give a try to ZeroNet
Isn’t ZeroNet a dead archived project ?
Might be worth checking out Aether. Multiple dealbreakers for me though.
Sorry, not gonna get much help here, people here like censorship and mods banning trans people for “leaking conversations.” Free speech is generally seen as being for Nazis, despite the nazis actually hating free speech just as much as they do but for different reasons.
Basically your only option is imageboards like 4chan and 8kun (or whatever 8chan rebranded to.) 420chan is dead, so is 7chan iirc, and 2chan is still Japanese.
Or I guess there’s always good ol’ usenet.
