This post is inspired by a recent user I interacted with accusing me of being transphobic due to disagreeing with the concept of “xenogenders”
Without going too in depth, this user identified as “swarmgender”, and believed they are part of a literal hive mind. This led me down a path of reflection, wanting to be accepting of someones identity while trying to understand it rationally, and I came to a pretty firm conclusion:
They’re fucking nuts.
I’m not saying this in a transphobic sense, there is nothing wrong with being trans. (Original statement: But the medical terminology for what’s being experienced is gender dysphoria. It’s a mental illness.) It was pointed out to me by a commenter that this statement is inaccurate as of the updated DSM-5 definition, which sorta complicates my view here but doesn’t subtract from the overall point.
It’s important to acknowledge this because there’s a bit of a slippery slope going on where individuals with more severe mental issues are using gender politics to either
A: make themselves the bestest most specialist snowflake
Or
B: Obfuscate how fucking insane they actually are under the guise of anyone disagreeing being transphobic.
Anyway, this thread’ll be fun
Edit: the aforementioned Swarmgender joker has started posting about people in this thread on their own little community dedicated to how much of a victim they are lol
Without going too in depth, this user identified as “swarmgender”, and believed they are part of a literal hive mind.
That person was fucking with you. They were a troll and you took the bait. I hope that in the future you will be less gullible.
I truly, from the bottom of my heart want to believe that, but they have an entire community dedicated to documenting their perpetual self victimhood. You’re there too now.
The medical term is Gender Dysphoria and people who believe they are a part of a hive mind or a wolf or worm don’t have gender dysphoria. It’s like someone saying they have OCD because they dont like messy rooms. That’s not what OCD is.
Gender dysphoria is when a person experiences distress because the gender they have been assigned by society doesn’t match the gender they want to be. Gender is masculine, feminine, something in-between, a mix of everything, none at all, but hivemind and furry aren’t genders.
I don’t think it matters what you call it. Gender dysphoria is a condition that hurts, and the cure is gender affirming care and acceptance.
As long as we agree on that idc what you define it as.
I don’t have much of an opinion on people who believe they’re a hive mind or a wolf or something. That seems to be your main issue, and imo it’s a very different topic from whether or not gender dysphoria is mental illness. Like yeah they themselves are trying to put that in the same basket as gender identity, but it’s an entirely different discussion.
The people who are actually facing discrimination from being non-heterosexual, being trans, and/or experiencing legitimate gender dysphoria the ones that we should be protecting. We shouldn’t be protecting uWu_bulgy_wulfy_xD because they identify as a wolf and they claim to have the same problems that trans or non-heterosexual people face.
EDIT: more gooder english and clarification
we should make fun of
Please cite anything that says bullying is effective at changing people’s behaviours
When you get down to it, the only difference between sanity and mental illness is social acceptance. Is thinking you are part of a hive mind really any more crazy than thinking there is an invisible magical being watching you at all times who will punish or reward you based on your actions?
(Before anyone gets upset, note I didn’t specify if I was talking about God or Santa Claus).
Bullshit.
Depression and ADD are not disorders because of society.
Asking someone to repeat what they say TWICE, and still not remembering any of it, even though you realllllly want to, would not be daffodils and fucking dandelions even if we were all the same.
Neither would being so depressed you can’t get out of the house in the morning.
This is true. Most mental illness are attributes that exist to one degree or another in the populace. It is the overexpression or underexpression to a point that someone cannot function normally that it becomes illness.
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I just don’t understand why the especially weird stuff like “swarm” or “elf” has to be part of their… gender?
I’ve seen someone reference pyrogender, the gender that feels like fire, but certainly that would fall under some other parameter besides gender, right? Maybe ethnicity or species or something, but certainly not gender lol
There’s attention seeking behavior on the internet, and then there’s clinically diagnosable gender dysphoria. The prior is more likely narcissism run amok. The second can boil down to a difference in the proprioceptive map of the body in the brain and the actual body it inhabits. As far as gender dysphoria goes, it’s far easier to “fix” the physical form than it is to rewire the brain. We have tried both. The second option is torture at best, as exemplified by the suicide rates.
Saying this as a gay person.
That’s kinda what I’m getting at- it doesn’t have anything to do with gender. Gender politics is being shoehorned in as a socially acceptable way to force people to validate a delusional belief, whatever that may be.
Gender politics is being shoehorned in as a socially acceptable way to force people to validate a delusional belief, whatever that may be.
Religion is being shoehorned into politics as a socially acceptable way to force people to validate a delusional belief.
Fun Fact: The existence of Two Spirited individuals is much, much older than Christianity.
Oh yes I agree, religion is poison in its own right
species ._.
FYI, the DSM-V disagrees with you.
Gender dysphoria: A concept designated in the DSM-5-TR as clinically significant distress or impairment related to gender incongruence, which may include desire to change primary and/or secondary sex characteristics. Not all transgender or gender diverse people experience gender dysphoria.
I was going to say that that’s super interesting and doesn’t sound quite right, so I checked and it isn’t unless you’re referencing another definition. If so pls cite.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK577212/table/pediat_transgender.T.dsm5_criteria_for_g/
It’s from the American Psychiatric Association, the association that pens most of the DSM.
The DSM–5 articulates explicitly that “gender non-conformity is not in itself a mental disorder.” The 5th edition also includes a separate “gender dysphoria in children” diagnosis and for the first time allows the diagnosis to be given to individuals with disorders of sex development (DSD). DSM–5 also includes the optional “post-transition” specifier to indicate when a particular individual’s gender transition is complete. In this “post-transition” case, the diagnosis of gender dysphoria would no longer apply but the individual may still need ongoing medical care (e.g., hormonal treatment). Nevertheless, discussions continue among advocates and medical professionals about how best to preserve access to gender transition-related health care while also minimizing the degree to which such diagnostic categories stigmatize the very people that physicians are attempting to help.
Hmmm interesting! So it decouples being trans and experiencing gender dysphoria as two separate things.
Thanks for pointing that out
I doubt OP cares about that and they wrote dismorphia and not disphoria. Both things have no obvious connection to the person OP describes? Also idk if I like citing ICD, DSM or whatever as part of an argument on this topic
I do care, I did use the wrong word tho- mybad
And I would also agree they aren’t really related to the person whom I’m describing. However, they would likely disagree vehemently and say we are transphobic.
It’s all very confusing
We?
idk this person, and I only know what you have written about them. There might be a lot more nuance, or not. But this post is not nuanced, probably too hastly written, without thinking twice about what you wrote and you do not seem to have the intentions you suggest you have. I can’t believe you wrote this because you want to “save the trans community from crazy fakers” or whatever.
What the fuck are you talking about? Im not trying to save anyone from anything lol
I assumed that. There is the idea to exclude groups from the trans community to make the community not look worse (to cishets) and to not waste time helping the other groups. I.e. saving the trans community at least effort. I assumed that is your (at least suggested) reason. But instead you don’t care about trans people (maybe neither in a good or bad was) and just don’t want people like the person you described to be helped by anyone. Or you even don’t want them to exist at all. Is this assumption correct?
Also some people are crazy, big deal
Pretty sure OP just doesn’t want to tread on glass around a person with borderline personality disorder to avoid being called transphobic, which sounds fair to me.
you sound like you’re creating your own narrative here. the OP said nothing like this whatsoever.
They’ve been polite and respectful in the thread. Relax.
I am not a fan of those who use the DSM like Christians use the Bible (the words written in the book I believe to be the most ethos heavy book is the absolute truth).
That said, I don’t disagree with you. In most cases.
I’d say it’s about time for a DSM-VI that digs further into the topic.
I’d consider any psychological condition that causes discomfort/pain to be a psychological illness.
I’d say that OP’s title is a misnomer for the argument he presented.
I’d also really resist calling “swarmgender” a gender.
I don’t think gender is binary, and definitely not assigned at birth, but I’d agree that there are a lot of “tumbler genders” out there that read to me as mental illness. Dysphoric or not.
Illness/disorder is the key part here. All of us experience sadness, depression, anxiety, urges like murder or fetishes, compulsions and dysphoria or whatever to some degree. It becomes an illness when it becomes so distressing that we can’t manage it to ourselves and cause negative results that is beyond manageable. And where that line is will vary.
Labeling a huge group as being mentally ill just seems a bit fucked to me. Am I mentally Ill because I drink every night even though I stop when I want. When does it become alcoholism? When do I go from being depressed to depression or anxious to having generalized anxiety. And when does my gender identity become a dysphoria. I go to the gym because I’m not as big as I want to be or think I should be. That’s a dysphoria but is it an illness?
I would say if someone is able to live their life as they want without harm to themselves or others then its not really illness because I don’t know where the illness part is. But if I force them to identify as something they tell me they’re not then maybe I’m forcing the illness on them and I don’t like to do that. But I also don’t agree wolfkin and the other shit you mention are similar
This really is the key. The question, in my opinion, is not whether the person is nuts or not but if their belief, condition, behavior is so strong that it affects their life in a detrimental way. If it does then it’s a disorder and they need help to get their life back on track. If not, well, their life is alright and not affecting anyone else in a detrimental way? They are free to live out their life as they want to
As a recovering alcoholic, I will answer your question as to when you become alcoholic. I drank every night for 22 years before I started having issues in the day. It took me a while to figure out that I was going through withdrawals. I didn’t think I could be having withdrawals, because I drank last night. The withdrawals got steadily worse until I had to start taking a sip at lunch just to calm them. After some time the sip at lunch turned into a sip after lunch, a sip before lunch, and eventually a drink every hour just to ward off the massive withdrawals.
Addiction is a progressive disease. It always gets worse, but not at the same rate for everyone. I had a friend that died of alcoholism at 27. I drank just like he did, sobered up at 44, and am still here.
I shoulda popped some popcorn.
But, dude, there’s crazies that claim they’re jesus too. There’s crazies that claim they are the chosen people of whatever religion they follow.
And yes, there are crazies that glom onto non religious groups.
But you’re making the mistake of assuming that those crazies are the same as the group they glom onto.
And, it’s important to note that I use the term crazies specifically to differentiate the batshit people that would use “swarm” as gender at all, and people that just have a neurological, psychological, or psychiatric issue. When the person is not only enough of an idiot to pretend they’re something that doesn’t exist and do it in public, that’s fucking crazy, which is willfully doing dumb shit contrary to the evidence of one’s own senses.
Thus, flat earthers, your swarm idiot, people that believe politicians care about them, and other forms of public stupidity are crazies, but trans people are dealing with a complex medical issue that may or may not have associated psychological affects due to that.
I know it’s a pretty spicy thread huh. I’m honestly just glad the majority of people seem to agree that Swarmgender is bizarre
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The hive mind part of this does sound delusional to me. But I’m not a psychologist.
My advice for you: if in good faith you really think they have a mental illness, then I encourage you to act with grace and avoid calling them names, even if they get angry at you.
Oh yeah, them! They were too much even for hexbear. Most posters there were of the opinion that it was option B, at least from what I saw in threads.
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I’ll agree that it’s a mental illness, but no more than being left handed or gay. Sure it’s a deviation from the statical “norm” but who does it harm and what does it matter? Let people conceptualize themselves however they like. Lots of “born again Christians” out there who talk about their relationship with an imaginary friend.
What does it matter to you how anyone perceive themselves or the world around them? They still deserve respect. You’re allowed to think whatever you want about others, but using what you perceive as illness as a reason to mock or belittle them then that’s just active cruelty. In your A or B scenario, both of those situations are someone deserves respect and that you yourself don’t need to concern yourself with. Who tf cares if they feel special? Good for them. If you wanna think them crazy, I mean… okay? Just don’t be shitty to 'em.
Besides, if you really want to get in to the philosophy of it. Where exactly is the “you” in your body? We are all a collection of living cells that are controlled by a not yet entirely determined part of thr brain. Sure parts of the brain can be damaged and that causes personality changes, but where the “you” in you truly resides is hard to say. Sounds like a swarm to me.
Essentilism is a philosophy use without realizing, but it is also a inherently immposible to prove concept, and saying “X is absolutely and only X” really doesn’t allow for the messiness that is the world, or the human experience. If they are happiest as a swarm. Well rock on!
So you encountered, on the interwebz, one person you consider insane and now you would like to use the evidence of that encounter to whine about sth sth gender sth sth trans?
Mental illness where and by whose standards btw? Look my friend, I, who is nothing but a gender-unclear bog creature, will readily acknowledge:
Who’s an edgy boi, who is? You are! 🙂
